Ico cover art by bigdogsleeping. |
Michael’s “Narrative Manifesto” post at the Brainy Gamer gave me an opportunity to think about what’s at stake when we talk about interactive narratives. Although I can only sketch out some of the issues involved, I’d like to take a stab at understanding a few ways we tend to think about interactivity and narratives, and the kinds of assumptions they come with. I hope that I don’t come off too strongly here, but I think we’ve continued to repeat a grave mistake in our understanding of interactivity, and because of that are headed down a blind alley in terms of story development.
The basic premise I have is that the word “interactive” can be understood on at least two levels in video games. We tend to forget that one level of interactivity is more important than the other, often end up in situations where a player fights with the game instead of enjoying it for what it is. Instead of beating our collective heads against the wall as we try to design games that let players live out their wildest desires, we should be developing worlds that encourage players to explore them as living, breathing, places.
When we talk about video games, we typically mean “interactive” when hit a button and the game responds in some way. The player interacts with the game in a way that produces some kind of in-game response. For the last 25 years, this form of interaction has been hailed as the hallmark of computer and video games because other media seem to be less contingent upon the audience’s choices - musical melodies and brush strokes don’t change much when we listen to music or encounter a painting. Since Pong, we’ve relied upon the idea that what is physically on the screen should change whenever the player does something. Player-game interaction is what we typically mean by interactivity. Player choices and decisions are tantamount here, and the game enables the player to accomplish her/his goals.
But doesn’t that seem a bit suspect? Like the first time a cat sees its reflection in a mirror and realizes that it can make its doppelganger do its bidding? Have we been pushing pixels around a screen for 25 years and marveling at the novelty of technology?
In order to answer that, we have to look at a second kind of interactivity. This level of interactivity is one that is found in all aspects of human perception, not just when we play video games. When we talk about engagement we mean that a person is somehow captured, arrested, or even enchanted by something. When we really engage with something, it seems to capture our entire attention. In the most extreme experiences of engagement we sometimes seem to perceive nothing else than the object (or person) of interest - we feel inseparable from the person, place, or thing. A lot of 18th century philosophy tried to get at the idea of perceiving things ‘as they are’ without our personal desires getting in the way.
If you’ve read Michael’s post on the experience of keeping a scorecard at a baseball game (and my comparison to Role-Playing), really engaging with a game means that we put our desires aside and let the game speak to us. Really engaging with a spectated ball game, role-playing a character, reading a book, listening to music, having a conversation, and engaging with fine art, all involve giving ourselves over to the experience and appreciating it for what it is, not our personal desires. Personal engagement is a more primary form of interactivity because it lets the object/person/game express itself to us. Only then can we really personally respond to it and feel something for it. This is a more direct, less masturbatory way of interacting with something.
This is where I think things have gone south of cheese in the way we think about video games. We’ve forgotten that our ability to engage with something is a gift inherent to human perception, and instead we’ve attempted to replace that form of engagement with a derivative technological form of interaction (player-game). When I engage with a game, and really live in that world, everything around me falls aside. The choose-your-own-adventure-esque choices that I make in game mean nothing if I do not already buy into the world as a living, breathing, place, where my choices matter not just to me but the game world itself. When I play Ico, if I don’t invest in the game world I couldn’t possibly care if Yorda is captured by the shadowy figures - she’s just another annoying road block that gets in the way of my immediate goals.
| Skip to the 4:00 mark for Ico’s encounter with Yorda. |
But when I engage with the world of Ico, I develop a care for what happens in the game, and it’s no longer possible to watch Yorda get pulled into one of the black portals without feeling guilty, or compelled to run over and save her. So inviting players to really engage with a game is the true magic of video games, as it is with novels, films, music, stories, and other media. The magic of engagement, which comes as a result of the author inviting the audience to stay a while, and the audience putting aside their immediate desires, is something that principally cannot be achieved technologically. Or in other words, player-game interaction (the kind of interaction we’re used to in games) only means something when the player is already engaged with the game.
In that way, the idea that we need to develop interactive storytelling algorithms or AI that “react” to the player’s choices in real-time in order to make stories better or more enjoyable, is barking up the wrong tree. Instead of figuring out ways to craft a story on-the-fly (how many times do we need to re-invent Choose-Your-Own-Adventure?), we should be trying to figure out what’s involved in getting players to really engage with the game and build a sense of care for it.
I’m not suggesting that player-game interaction doesn’t matter - it still remains to be an important part of what makes video games a unique medium - I’m instead suggesting that our time needs to be invested in understanding what makes a particular narrative or story compelling for a player. Without that, there is no technological magic pill that will make a story matter for us.
… does this make any sense to anyone else?
Note: head on over to the Vorpal Bunny Ranch for a response from Denis, who has masterfully shown how these issues are expressed in several kinds of games.
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“Instead of beating our collective heads against the wall as we try to design games that let players live out their wildest desires, we should be developing worlds that encourage players to explore them as living, breathing, places.”
Yes, yes, oh, GOD YES! You are totally making sense to me. However (and it’s only a small however) I wonder if throwing out the baby with the bath-water is such a great idea. I’ve added another comment on the original Brainy Gamer post, but I’ll summarise - I totally believe games should be focussing on engaging players rather than, as you say, masturbating their desire to ‘make the plumber move’ exactly as they intended.
But I don’t know if you could successfully have the player engage in the world without that direct sense of presence afforded by such direct control.
Maybe I’m wrong - there’s certainly a lot to be said for designing carefully exactly what it is that the player spends all their time doing, and it doesn’t always have to be running and jumping and turning - but I think that at least if for no other reason than we are now so *used* to doing that, then maybe games would be best served by maintaining these conventions.
I dunno, whaddya reckon? Did I read your meaning all wrong?
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Yes, it does! Thank you for starting this dialogue.
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In my opinion, the two types of engagement would form a cycle. The player attains some degree of personal engagement through imagination, projection, or suspension of disbelief; this gives him/her the ability to perform various acts of player-game interaction. Each interaction, though, should ideally feed back into the player’s engagement in the game.
Modern games which are technically acceptable but utterly soulless (for instance, that FPS game you’ve seen demo footage of but whose name eludes you because you knew there was no way you could care) definitely have a problem with making their player/game interactions feed back into engagement, and designers of these soulless games would do well to consider the concept and (hopefully) make something more of their games than simple strings of emotionless, rudimentary actions.
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I find it hard to reconcile “engagement” as being “interactive”.
For example:
- I look at a painting. It engages me. I find the lilies on the pond wonderfully painted.
- I watch a movie. I’m really enjoying it. I lose myself in it, so much so that I forget to make out with my date.Is they interactive? I think the great majority of people would say, “no, that’s not interactive.” And I would agree. I’m having meaningful experiences, yes, but I am not interacting with them. I am simply choosing to be dragged along.
I completely agree that in order for a player-game interaction to be meaningful, there has to be a level of engagement to begin with. Without that context, there is no meaning. One could just be pressing buttons to make colours flash on a screen. However, I don’t believe “engagement” is a primary form of interaction. It’s a form of emotional state, created by an external force (albeit allowed for by yourself). Interactivity hinges on being able to change the course that the engagement is giving you, and to start changing the story (whether it be the game-narrative or player-narrative), as you suggest.
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Thank you for your reply on my comment over at The Brainy Gamer. It finally gave me the impetus to write my own post about the issue and further examine the comment I left on Michael’s blog.
Of course, the problem I see with this is how much gamers seem to be clamoring for more and more options. When convoluted plots like Metal Gear Solid seem to be a benchmark (though, to be fair, I have kept away from the series because of this reputation), I do wonder when we’ll see more player engagement in the emotional investment and the care we are willing to put forth into the characters.
This does exist, but it often seems to me it’s because we are struck by a novel character or identify with the characteristics of said character. That and the squee factor (I have recently beeing squeeing over chocobos and moogles, so this brought to my mind a possible connection with non-human game ‘actors’ being much more available due to no previous expectations of what we can expect from their personalities). I have to pick up Ico, but I enjoyed the interaction between Pey’j and Jade, for instance, and wonder how many of those engagements affect other players (obviously it does have an audience, however, as it keeps coming up for discussion in the blogs I seem to read).
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Sometimes it’s difficult to put down ideas in words when you have the kind of intuition that says “something tells me that most people are barking up the wrong tree when they tackle this issue”. Often, it is language itself that causes the problem, like the ambiguity in the word ‘interactive’.
What I understand by this ‘engagement’ is the sort of feeling I get with The Longest Journey universe, the engagement that drives me and many others to talk endlessly on forums about the plot twists, characters and how the story might continue. And the sort of engagement that prompted me to make notes about Final Fantasy X. The things that engage me about games like these is the fact they have coherent, consistent world models and mythoi (plural of mythos, apparently!). What I mean is that they’re set in completely different universes, have their own world map, place names, races, societies, species, architecture, culture etc etc. Those kinds of game appeal to me most - but that’s a subjective thing, I suppose. For all games, not just fantasies, the characters and their stories and their goals have to engage us in a similar way.
And yes, I agree that this - this engagement - is more important than ‘interactivity’, but then, I’m in a radical minority that doesn’t believe in free will, and therewith, believes that interactivity in games is a farce. I like my stories linear. If a game asks me, “What should the character do?” I just want to say, “It’s your character. You tell me. I’ve only known them a few hours!”
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Pingback from Narrative, Design, and Games. : clusterflock on August 8, 2008 at 11:33 am
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@chris
Ahhhhh, I see what you were getting at now.
The funny thing is, we don’t really disagree, I just stumbled over the words. I wonder if there’s an academic term that would unambiguously describe things. The vocabulary of ludology is still too small or not permeated gaming circles enough!
In which case, I’m going to say that while we need fully realised *games*, we don’t need full realised *worlds* for this to work. A game like Passage , while deliberately arty, illustrates this beautifully. It’s not a world you believe exists, but it’s one whose agency continues all the way through, and you’re able to engage and extract meanings and feelings from it.
The flipside would be something like Facade, which is a fully realised world, and creates the same environment because of the agency.
Agency is the key thing to this “engagement”, and I think most in the academic narrative research community believes that, so people aren’t really “barking up the wrong tree”. I certainly don’t think that research in this area is blinkered to the issue (on the contrary, Facade would have been a great PhD thesis without the game: the narrative technology would have been more than enough).
Whether a more myopic view is taken during real game dev, I don’t know. I think a lot of these things, particularly pertaining to narrative, are constrained in industry because of the time and money involved in the R&D for very unmarketable features. Academia will find workable solutions now that there are places with the focus for it (such as the Expressive Intelligence Studio at UC Santa Cruz). Once those start coming out, games built around that technology will begin to appear, and studios can focus efforts on building agency into those games.
DISCLAIMER: I’m off to study, hopefully with Mateas at the EIS, this Fall, so I have a biased view of these things!
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What an interesting and vigorous exchange of ideas. Very cool. And very stimulating.
I’m bringing over something I recently posted in the comments at my place, so apologies if you’ve already read this. At the risk of oversimplifying (and a bit of fence-sitting) it seems to me these narrative ideas should be seen as both/and rather than either/or.
It seems to me that if Redding/Hocking and others move in the direction I described in “Narrative manifesto” (a direction I find exciting for what it promises), such an approach does not necessarily invalidate other more authorial-controlled approaches to narrative design. Ultimately, all these ideas will be thrown into the big mix, and the ones that work best will be the ones we build on. It’s possible to see elements of one influencing and being adopted by the other.
This sort of cross-fertilization is one of the best outcomes of “big ideas” in the arts, and that’s why I’m so delighted by the hard thinking so many smart people are applying to game narratives. It’s not a perfect analogue, but if you look at Bertolt Brecht’s influence on the performance arts, I would say roughly 50% of his ideas “stuck” and the rest are still sort of floating around. I don’t agree with some of his ideas myself, but others I have fully embraced and borrowed shamelessly.
I just think it’s very rare for a big movement in the arts to be adsorbed whole cloth. The impact is usually more like a meteor collision, if that makes any sense at all.
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Though that did not stop Handke from trying to incorporate Brecht’s theories wholesale.
What’s intriguing about this example is that Brecht himself probably saw the flaws in his theories of the verfremdungseffekt and Epic theatre–it took someone else who became enamored with his idea to really push the envelope.
I imagine in the gaming world it would take the exact same parallel approach. A larger game would never be able to pull all these ideas off and still function, but a smaller, more boutique game may at least attempt more.
If anything, the attempt would at least show us how it succeeds and fails.
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A bit off-topic, but I like Handke’s ideas about the theater even less than Brecht’s precisely because they’re too “pure” and unyielding to any other ideas or aesthetics.
I think what I’m looking for in this games narrative debate is common ground, or at least a few areas where these theories may converge. It’s seems unlikely to me that anyone has a monopoly on good ideas. It’s not so much “why can’t we all get along,” but more “let’s try these ideas and see how they work and what we can learn.” Player-focused constructed narrative is a relatively new idea that will surely have something to offer, even if we ultimately decide author-controlled narrative works better.
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Are we potentially being unfair to the first form of interactivity? The ability to act and experience the response to that action is incredibly powerful if we really learn how to use it in a more experiential manner.
Recently I played (Which seems like an entirely inaccurate word) Masq (http://www.alteraction.com/) on the surface it’s a fairly straightforward branching story made up of discrete scenes; a choose-your-own-adventure. It’s possible to be entertained by a single play through from introduction to conclusions, but as each choice you make leads to a different range of choices in the future, and as each character responds in a consistent manner to your actions, it is much more meaningful to play multiple times. Gradually uncovering more about each character and how they react under different circumstances, there is no single defining truth but a range of potential truths.
I think maybe we should be looking at games to provide narratives that hinge on this multiplicity of truth, through direct interactivity. Where your understanding of the world develops as you experience the consequences of your choices; see how people’s motivations and actions change based on what you do.
It’s not about remaking a choose-your-own-adventure game, but about making a game about exploring the range of potential outcomes from any single decision. Television series spend hours building up webs of character interaction, layers of subtext and hidden motivation but games have a much better format for that, one where we can explore it at our own pace, where we can witness out actions affecting the world around like ripples in a pond. Such games could help us learn more about our place in the world, the consequences of our actions, and our responsibility to others.
Imagine a family gathering handled in such a game, we could take on the role of a family member and through our actions and their consequences we would learn much about the family itself and our place in it. Do we reveal our brother’s homosexuality or our mother’s affair, or do we keep their secrets and if so what does that do to the family dynamics? How does our father react to each of these revelations and what do we learn about his character from those reactions?
These wouldn’t be stories in the traditional sense, though it would still be a narrative of a sort, it would be closer to Rashomon than Citizen Kane, but no less powerful for it.Maybe that’s where we go astray, assuming that established rules still hold for a new medium.
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Pingback from Infovore » links for August 10th on August 10, 2008 at 6:01 pm
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When I read your post today, and yes I know it’s a bit late, I got very excited. I can see I’m not the only one from the huge response you’ve received here. What a great post though. All this time, ever since trying to nudge people in the direction of art games a couple of years ago, I’ve been coming from a phenomenological perspective.
In fact, my entire “interaction” with games tends to be on such a phenomenological level. And I love it that you brought this up, because I think I might have given up on the whole thing. That is, the whole nudging people in that direction idea, not on the approach itself though.
So while it remains important to differentiate between interaction, a rather minimal and basic concept, and engagement, I agree with you that the latter is of greater importance in designing a game. Nevertheless, the aspects of interactivity and the basis on which that interactivity is formed serve as a unique attribute to games which present this as a fascinating new medium of creative expression for me.
Riding the coat-tails of your previous post, I must say that Morrowind provided me with the right combination of variables to generate that type of engagement. Though I understand your criticisms of the TES series, Morrowind had me so hooked that I played the game for about two years. Other adventure games have had a similar effect on me, but that’s another tangent.
The point is, that over the years I have noticed a trend in myself to try and experience media such as games and movies without letting myself get in the way. As a result, I have been known to think much more positively of certain works than most of my friends and acquaintances. That’s fine though, because I think I get a lot more out of watching/playing these things, while they just sit there complaining and not having as much fun with it. I think that going about experiencing media this way presents a great deal for us to gain, and nothing to loose.
So thank you for writing this post. Oh and just to clarify, phenomenology remains at the forefront of contemporary philosophy, along side philosophy of technology and environmental philosophy. For one of the most notably philosopher of our time in this vein look up Albert Borgmann (a student of Martin Heidegger’s and the teacher of my philosophy professor ^_^).
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I managed to put some of my own thoughts down yesterday on this topic. My concern is that interactivity and narrative aren’t always complimentary, and sometimes they are at odds. Even if one of the two is good, it often makes the other of secondary importance.
Two examples that I used in particular were Wing Commander and Morrowind, which are good examples of strong authorial control and player generated narrative, respectively. In the end, it’s hard to find games where interactivity and narrative are balanced well, and I believe a game which does so well is Indigo Prophecy.
I would be happy to get your feedback on that post of mine, and if you have time you can read it here…
http://mentisworks.blogspot.com/2008/08/game-narrative-internal-struggle.html
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broadly speaking engagement has two ways to go;
one is getting pulled in by something that really interests you and make you forget about the world and the almighty thyself. The other one is the kind that also makes you forget about the world but at the same time makes you wanna be there with your whole being, both body and soul. That is where the interactivity comes in! As stressed out in the article what makes the games unique is their interactiveness. There have been many times that i found myself wanting to dive in a painting that i adored. That’s the beauty of the video games, you can dive in! But i guess what’s being missed while attempting to make the games more interactive is the thing that makes you wanna dive, which is definitely the story. And by story i’m not only talking about the narrative, but also the visual elements that make up the world.I think the main concern should be “reaching to a state of equilibrium” while putting a few more grams of weight on interactivity because that’s what distinguishes a game from a novel, a picture or a video. I love interactivity and i’m not quite sure which draws me to that world; my desires or the story. But probably i wouldn’t even enjoy the story if i didn’t find something to relate to, just like i wouldn’t when i’m reading a novel, unless it is a masterpiece like a painting of Raphael.
We engage in a game with our body and soul. We don’t just lean back and get intoxicated, but we participate and the most importantly we play! And computer is the best tool yet invented because of that =)
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dude! right on!!


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