<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Stepping into the Dragon&#8217;s Lair: What&#8217;s Left after All the Fallout 3 Hype?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.artfulgamer.com/2008/08/05/stepping-into-the-dragons-lair-what-does-all-the-hype-about-fallout-3-meanwri/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.artfulgamer.com/2008/08/05/stepping-into-the-dragons-lair-what-does-all-the-hype-about-fallout-3-meanwri/</link>
	<description>in search of the poetic and lyrical in video games</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:10:32 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Denis</title>
		<link>http://www.artfulgamer.com/2008/08/05/stepping-into-the-dragons-lair-what-does-all-the-hype-about-fallout-3-meanwri/#comment-5132</link>
		<dc:creator>Denis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 17:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artfulgamer.com/?p=169#comment-5132</guid>
		<description>As Zach pointed out, the dialog can be rather spotty in the games, but I do agree with you that this is something that is mixed in with shining examples. It is an issue that hasn't been discussed, and in their decision to keep the Radiant AI, I wonder how much this will also affect the conversation trees.

It is somewhat bothersome (though understandable from a writing perspective) that conversations NPCs have with each other do not offer dialog options when the character goes to speak with him/her.

However, those character wells did grow particularly frustrating the last time I started (two months ago, then was distracted by Oblivion again). Especially as so much seemed filler.

Now that I said I loaded up Oblivion, I will say I flinched as the intro movie played and I felt I was in Lord of the Rings with the orchestral music blaring and the slow panning of the Imperial City. There are many games where I turn off the music after the initial listen because I'd rather set my own mood (ooo, implementing my own options). However, I feel this is normally because the soundtracks don't really feed into the game in the same manner.

Ah well, already preordered my Collector's Edtion--I want that lunch box and will be using it. Thankfully, working in a Design department that enjoys discussing games, I expect to be the envy of the office.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Zach pointed out, the dialog can be rather spotty in the games, but I do agree with you that this is something that is mixed in with shining examples. It is an issue that hasn&#8217;t been discussed, and in their decision to keep the Radiant AI, I wonder how much this will also affect the conversation trees.</p>
<p>It is somewhat bothersome (though understandable from a writing perspective) that conversations NPCs have with each other do not offer dialog options when the character goes to speak with him/her.</p>
<p>However, those character wells did grow particularly frustrating the last time I started (two months ago, then was distracted by Oblivion again). Especially as so much seemed filler.</p>
<p>Now that I said I loaded up Oblivion, I will say I flinched as the intro movie played and I felt I was in Lord of the Rings with the orchestral music blaring and the slow panning of the Imperial City. There are many games where I turn off the music after the initial listen because I&#8217;d rather set my own mood (ooo, implementing my own options). However, I feel this is normally because the soundtracks don&#8217;t really feed into the game in the same manner.</p>
<p>Ah well, already preordered my Collector&#8217;s Edtion&#8211;I want that lunch box and will be using it. Thankfully, working in a Design department that enjoys discussing games, I expect to be the envy of the office.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://www.artfulgamer.com/2008/08/05/stepping-into-the-dragons-lair-what-does-all-the-hype-about-fallout-3-meanwri/#comment-5069</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 14:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artfulgamer.com/?p=169#comment-5069</guid>
		<description>A visitation from the all-seeing Nur-ab-sal.. !
:D

(couldn't help myself, sorry)

Good point. I had forgotten about the in-game literature. Those do make a difference for background/story arc/the world. Indeed, I've never had a complaint about the TES world... I find it a fascinating re-take on typical RPG fantasy. There is much to value in the TES games - especially Morrowind and (surprisingly!) Daggerfall. It's just too bad that the same kinds of qualities never seem to make it into the interactive writing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A visitation from the all-seeing Nur-ab-sal.. !<br />
 <img src='http://www.artfulgamer.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>(couldn&#8217;t help myself, sorry)</p>
<p>Good point. I had forgotten about the in-game literature. Those do make a difference for background/story arc/the world. Indeed, I&#8217;ve never had a complaint about the TES world&#8230; I find it a fascinating re-take on typical RPG fantasy. There is much to value in the TES games - especially Morrowind and (surprisingly!) Daggerfall. It&#8217;s just too bad that the same kinds of qualities never seem to make it into the interactive writing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nur-ab-sal</title>
		<link>http://www.artfulgamer.com/2008/08/05/stepping-into-the-dragons-lair-what-does-all-the-hype-about-fallout-3-meanwri/#comment-5041</link>
		<dc:creator>Nur-ab-sal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:21:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artfulgamer.com/?p=169#comment-5041</guid>
		<description>There actually is careful writing in TES, but it's in the books rather than the dialogue. The Imperial Library (http://imperial-library.info) transcribes and analyzes (to a ridiculous degree, in many cases) the texts of TES' books. It's still not a story in any way--much of them are just random fantasy short stories, some are more worldbuilding/cosmology type stuff--but I just wanted to point out the existence of decent writing in TES.

Personally I always found Morrowind much more interesting than Oblivion in terms of everything except gameplay (which is why I ended up playing Oblivion more and mostly just reading Morrowind via the above site); Morrowind does have a fairly well-crafted story (well, backstory, but that's common in RPGs), although the dialogue still sucks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There actually is careful writing in TES, but it&#8217;s in the books rather than the dialogue. The Imperial Library (http://imperial-library.info) transcribes and analyzes (to a ridiculous degree, in many cases) the texts of TES&#8217; books. It&#8217;s still not a story in any way&#8211;much of them are just random fantasy short stories, some are more worldbuilding/cosmology type stuff&#8211;but I just wanted to point out the existence of decent writing in TES.</p>
<p>Personally I always found Morrowind much more interesting than Oblivion in terms of everything except gameplay (which is why I ended up playing Oblivion more and mostly just reading Morrowind via the above site); Morrowind does have a fairly well-crafted story (well, backstory, but that&#8217;s common in RPGs), although the dialogue still sucks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://www.artfulgamer.com/2008/08/05/stepping-into-the-dragons-lair-what-does-all-the-hype-about-fallout-3-meanwri/#comment-5039</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:12:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artfulgamer.com/?p=169#comment-5039</guid>
		<description>I agree with you that the dialog in Fallout is inconsistent at best, and I suppose that my comparison to Torment is over-the-top in retrospect. Fallout, to me, feels like an unfinished symphony... at times the game feels polished and tight... and at other times screams incompletion and hollowness. I can specifically remember that several of the towns are full of "information well" characters (terrible!). But those are often outshined by the more fleshed-out characters. Of note are the (sometimes) more complex relationships between the characters that add to the intrigue, such as Killian Darkwater and Gizmo in Junktown.

But keep in mind, these are mere irritants, in comparison to Oblivion, where cookie-cutter dialogs comprise 99% of the game.

As for the second issue, again, I suspect that the game suffers from a lack of polish. Torment pulls so much further ahead in the sheer bulk of interaction.

I do think, though, that Bethesda is still worlds apart in terms of writing, and given almost &lt;del&gt;20&lt;/del&gt; 15 years of making TES games .. they still rely upon the same story mechanics as they did in Arena and Daggerfall. I agree that Fallout-quality writing would be easily attainable (and improvable!) - but only with the right writer. I'm not sure that Bethesda has that person.

Either way - your comment has given me quite a bit to think about. I'm planning on giving Fallout another play-through before the summer's over. Thanks much for your thoughts!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you that the dialog in Fallout is inconsistent at best, and I suppose that my comparison to Torment is over-the-top in retrospect. Fallout, to me, feels like an unfinished symphony&#8230; at times the game feels polished and tight&#8230; and at other times screams incompletion and hollowness. I can specifically remember that several of the towns are full of &#8220;information well&#8221; characters (terrible!). But those are often outshined by the more fleshed-out characters. Of note are the (sometimes) more complex relationships between the characters that add to the intrigue, such as Killian Darkwater and Gizmo in Junktown.</p>
<p>But keep in mind, these are mere irritants, in comparison to Oblivion, where cookie-cutter dialogs comprise 99% of the game.</p>
<p>As for the second issue, again, I suspect that the game suffers from a lack of polish. Torment pulls so much further ahead in the sheer bulk of interaction.</p>
<p>I do think, though, that Bethesda is still worlds apart in terms of writing, and given almost <del>20</del> 15 years of making TES games .. they still rely upon the same story mechanics as they did in Arena and Daggerfall. I agree that Fallout-quality writing would be easily attainable (and improvable!) - but only with the right writer. I&#8217;m not sure that Bethesda has that person.</p>
<p>Either way - your comment has given me quite a bit to think about. I&#8217;m planning on giving Fallout another play-through before the summer&#8217;s over. Thanks much for your thoughts!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Zach</title>
		<link>http://www.artfulgamer.com/2008/08/05/stepping-into-the-dragons-lair-what-does-all-the-hype-about-fallout-3-meanwri/#comment-5038</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:02:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artfulgamer.com/?p=169#comment-5038</guid>
		<description>After getting caught up in the Fallout 3 hype, I went back and replayed Fallout 1. While, I'm not going to disagree that the Elder Scroll series were weak in the dialog area, Fallout isn't that great either. Two things jump out at me-characters that function as information wells and inconsistency. 

Information well characters are what I'm calling characters who exist purely to describe the PC's current location and usually give an idea where quests exist in the area. Sometimes they are blessed with more than a sentence describing who they are but most of the time they could be replaced with signposts. This begs the question why some towns have almost everyone in the town fit this dialog model. 

The second issue I found is that Fallout can't seem to decide what kind of voice it wants to give the player. In one town the player is given a choice to be anything from the selfless champion to a single minded survivalist through dialog, in another my interaction with a major quest NPC is sarcastically accept quest, sarcastically ask for information, and end dialog. While not every game can be the masterpiece that was Planescape, I think Fallout is getting a bit too much a free pass in the dialog experience department.

In terms of music you are spot on. The orchestral track style is overdone and unsubtle music becomes unbearable after around 10 hours.

Overall, I'll give Bethesda some credit in that they recognize that the dialog in the Elder Scrolls was lacking. In my mind, though, Fallout level dialog is not an unobtainable goal and could use some improvement while they are at it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After getting caught up in the Fallout 3 hype, I went back and replayed Fallout 1. While, I&#8217;m not going to disagree that the Elder Scroll series were weak in the dialog area, Fallout isn&#8217;t that great either. Two things jump out at me-characters that function as information wells and inconsistency. </p>
<p>Information well characters are what I&#8217;m calling characters who exist purely to describe the PC&#8217;s current location and usually give an idea where quests exist in the area. Sometimes they are blessed with more than a sentence describing who they are but most of the time they could be replaced with signposts. This begs the question why some towns have almost everyone in the town fit this dialog model. </p>
<p>The second issue I found is that Fallout can&#8217;t seem to decide what kind of voice it wants to give the player. In one town the player is given a choice to be anything from the selfless champion to a single minded survivalist through dialog, in another my interaction with a major quest NPC is sarcastically accept quest, sarcastically ask for information, and end dialog. While not every game can be the masterpiece that was Planescape, I think Fallout is getting a bit too much a free pass in the dialog experience department.</p>
<p>In terms of music you are spot on. The orchestral track style is overdone and unsubtle music becomes unbearable after around 10 hours.</p>
<p>Overall, I&#8217;ll give Bethesda some credit in that they recognize that the dialog in the Elder Scrolls was lacking. In my mind, though, Fallout level dialog is not an unobtainable goal and could use some improvement while they are at it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
