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	<title>Comments on: Death in Video Games</title>
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	<link>http://www.artfulgamer.com/2007/09/11/death-in-video-games/</link>
	<description>in search of the poetic and lyrical in video games</description>
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		<title>By: Mathieu Dagenais</title>
		<link>http://www.artfulgamer.com/2007/09/11/death-in-video-games/comment-page-1/#comment-36374</link>
		<dc:creator>Mathieu Dagenais</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 19:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artfulgamer.com/2007/09/11/death-in-video-games/#comment-36374</guid>
		<description>Hey all, i dunno if this forum is still red by some, but this subjetc is really interesting me, especially the reincarnation of the avatar in FPS and MMORPG games. I&#039;m studying it in my master&#039;s degree in Religious science, here&#039;s my resume, if you got more infos on this, i would really appreciate, thx. 

Abstract

Reincarnation as a plausible hypothesis of the afterlife appears to be increasingly accepted. There is a significant rise in the number of people who spontaneously adhere to this belief. In many video games, the character must die and be reborn hundreds, even thousands of times before successfully completing his mission. I believe that playing video games frequently and intensively bears an impact greater than simple entertainement would. Therefore, I raise the following question: “do video games suggest, consciously or not, reincarnation as a concept of the afterlife?”. In this paper, I will discuss the psychosocial implications of video games while insisting on the concepts of life, death and the afterlife that are conveyed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey all, i dunno if this forum is still red by some, but this subjetc is really interesting me, especially the reincarnation of the avatar in FPS and MMORPG games. I&#8217;m studying it in my master&#8217;s degree in Religious science, here&#8217;s my resume, if you got more infos on this, i would really appreciate, thx. </p>
<p>Abstract</p>
<p>Reincarnation as a plausible hypothesis of the afterlife appears to be increasingly accepted. There is a significant rise in the number of people who spontaneously adhere to this belief. In many video games, the character must die and be reborn hundreds, even thousands of times before successfully completing his mission. I believe that playing video games frequently and intensively bears an impact greater than simple entertainement would. Therefore, I raise the following question: “do video games suggest, consciously or not, reincarnation as a concept of the afterlife?”. In this paper, I will discuss the psychosocial implications of video games while insisting on the concepts of life, death and the afterlife that are conveyed.</p>
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		<title>By: Restart From Last Save? - Page 2 - EN World D&#38;D / RPG News</title>
		<link>http://www.artfulgamer.com/2007/09/11/death-in-video-games/comment-page-1/#comment-9568</link>
		<dc:creator>Restart From Last Save? - Page 2 - EN World D&#38;D / RPG News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 03:57:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artfulgamer.com/2007/09/11/death-in-video-games/#comment-9568</guid>
		<description>[...] you to sit in front of the screen from start to finish (which was a very, very long time).   Here is actually an article on the history of death in video games.   Some video games however do vary [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] you to sit in front of the screen from start to finish (which was a very, very long time).   Here is actually an article on the history of death in video games.   Some video games however do vary [...]</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://www.artfulgamer.com/2007/09/11/death-in-video-games/comment-page-1/#comment-1212</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 00:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artfulgamer.com/2007/09/11/death-in-video-games/#comment-1212</guid>
		<description>-&gt; Stacey:

There have been a few games that used &#039;life after death&#039; techniques, but most in my experience are rarely very integrated into the game. Most of the time, they come off as awkward gimmicks that don&#039;t impress a true sense of immersion. I think Eponymouse&#039;s example (Herc&#039;s Adventure) is one of the better examples of how to at least fit it thematically into the game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>-> Stacey:</p>
<p>There have been a few games that used &#8216;life after death&#8217; techniques, but most in my experience are rarely very integrated into the game. Most of the time, they come off as awkward gimmicks that don&#8217;t impress a true sense of immersion. I think Eponymouse&#8217;s example (Herc&#8217;s Adventure) is one of the better examples of how to at least fit it thematically into the game.</p>
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		<title>By: Eponymouse</title>
		<link>http://www.artfulgamer.com/2007/09/11/death-in-video-games/comment-page-1/#comment-1211</link>
		<dc:creator>Eponymouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 22:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artfulgamer.com/2007/09/11/death-in-video-games/#comment-1211</guid>
		<description>Funny you mention Immortal, I was going to bring it up myself.  I&#039;ve never played it extensively but a friend of mine had an interesting insight.  He claims that the lesson of the game is that there are no heroes.  After all, no one person without foreknowledge could make it through the traps and hazards in that game.  He points that even the quest you&#039;re given was addressed to Dunric, and not you.  It&#039;s interesting to think about the knowledge the player gains through multiple attempts at the game as another element of the gameplay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny you mention Immortal, I was going to bring it up myself.  I&#8217;ve never played it extensively but a friend of mine had an interesting insight.  He claims that the lesson of the game is that there are no heroes.  After all, no one person without foreknowledge could make it through the traps and hazards in that game.  He points that even the quest you&#8217;re given was addressed to Dunric, and not you.  It&#8217;s interesting to think about the knowledge the player gains through multiple attempts at the game as another element of the gameplay.</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://www.artfulgamer.com/2007/09/11/death-in-video-games/comment-page-1/#comment-1210</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 22:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artfulgamer.com/2007/09/11/death-in-video-games/#comment-1210</guid>
		<description>I missed Herc&#039;s Adventure on the PS1 - I&#039;ll definitely check that one out if I ever come across it. Good example of something thematically sensible.

Glad that you brought up Roguelikes - those are *definitely* the most hardcore permadeaths. I&#039;ve never even come close to finishing one. In fact, that reminds me of a game for the Amiga/PC/C64/Genesis/NES called &quot;The Immortal&quot; - and I can&#039;t believe that I forgot to mention it! Every 10 steps is a grisly death, and it becomes enormously infuriating after playing for 2 hours only to hit a Game Over. So many of the traps were deadly - much like the average Roguelike.

If you ever decide to write something on Sinistar - since you seem to be more familiar with it than me - I&#039;d love to read it. The game felt like a diamond in the rough when I first played it, and I didn&#039;t get the chance to play it much because the town that had it was over an hour away. I guess it&#039;ll have to get some attention on my MAME cabinet again soon :)
I wonder if that in-game ecology was designed, or accidental? Given that what I know of arcade game developers - I&#039;m guessing it was serendipity.

Thanks for clarying some things - this article is farrrr from complete.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I missed Herc&#8217;s Adventure on the PS1 &#8211; I&#8217;ll definitely check that one out if I ever come across it. Good example of something thematically sensible.</p>
<p>Glad that you brought up Roguelikes &#8211; those are *definitely* the most hardcore permadeaths. I&#8217;ve never even come close to finishing one. In fact, that reminds me of a game for the Amiga/PC/C64/Genesis/NES called &#8220;The Immortal&#8221; &#8211; and I can&#8217;t believe that I forgot to mention it! Every 10 steps is a grisly death, and it becomes enormously infuriating after playing for 2 hours only to hit a Game Over. So many of the traps were deadly &#8211; much like the average Roguelike.</p>
<p>If you ever decide to write something on Sinistar &#8211; since you seem to be more familiar with it than me &#8211; I&#8217;d love to read it. The game felt like a diamond in the rough when I first played it, and I didn&#8217;t get the chance to play it much because the town that had it was over an hour away. I guess it&#8217;ll have to get some attention on my MAME cabinet again soon <img src='http://www.artfulgamer.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
I wonder if that in-game ecology was designed, or accidental? Given that what I know of arcade game developers &#8211; I&#8217;m guessing it was serendipity.</p>
<p>Thanks for clarying some things &#8211; this article is farrrr from complete.</p>
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		<title>By: Eponymouse</title>
		<link>http://www.artfulgamer.com/2007/09/11/death-in-video-games/comment-page-1/#comment-1208</link>
		<dc:creator>Eponymouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 21:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artfulgamer.com/2007/09/11/death-in-video-games/#comment-1208</guid>
		<description>In the Lucasarts action-adventure game Herc&#039;s Adventure for Playstation when you died you were transported to Hades and had to fight your way out, you only had a game over if you failed to get out.  Each time you appeared deeper in and the fight to get out was harder.  Essentially it&#039;s just a different gloss applied to the same lives/continues mechanic but it made thematic sense and was a fun extra bit of game.

I think I&#039;ve seen some of the best, and I suppose most hardcore, treatment of death in Rogue-like games.  Death is fickle, abrupt, and can come at any time but you&#039;re taught to treat each life as a valid game even if it comes to a messy end on the second floor of the dungeon.  There are no heroes, really; every character gets the same chance but only some of them have the fortune to survive.

Sinistar is notable for another reason than how scary it is; every death takes place in the same continuity.  If you die when Sinistar is completed then when you respawn he will be active and flying around (incidentally making it much much harder to mine the materials you need for bombs).  If you did damage to him in your previous life then he will still be damaged when you come back.  This suggests that there&#039;s multiple fight pilots of course, something that isn&#039;t really addressed in game (how could it be?) but in my experience kind of unusual in an arcade game of it&#039;s sort.

The other interesting thing doesn&#039;t relate at all to the subject at hand but I feel like mentioning it anyway.  Sinistar isn&#039;t so derivative of Asteroids in that the enemies seem to exist outside of just being targets for blasting by the player: they autonomously go about their business of mining asteroids (the drones don&#039;t even attack the player, only the enemy fighters do that) and building Sinistar regardless of the player&#039;s presence.  If you blow up asteroids and don&#039;t collect the minerals you can even give them a head start because they&#039;ll scoop up the loose minerals and take it back to build more pieces on to Sinistar.  This simple ecology going on in the level around you is something quite unusual.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the Lucasarts action-adventure game Herc&#8217;s Adventure for Playstation when you died you were transported to Hades and had to fight your way out, you only had a game over if you failed to get out.  Each time you appeared deeper in and the fight to get out was harder.  Essentially it&#8217;s just a different gloss applied to the same lives/continues mechanic but it made thematic sense and was a fun extra bit of game.</p>
<p>I think I&#8217;ve seen some of the best, and I suppose most hardcore, treatment of death in Rogue-like games.  Death is fickle, abrupt, and can come at any time but you&#8217;re taught to treat each life as a valid game even if it comes to a messy end on the second floor of the dungeon.  There are no heroes, really; every character gets the same chance but only some of them have the fortune to survive.</p>
<p>Sinistar is notable for another reason than how scary it is; every death takes place in the same continuity.  If you die when Sinistar is completed then when you respawn he will be active and flying around (incidentally making it much much harder to mine the materials you need for bombs).  If you did damage to him in your previous life then he will still be damaged when you come back.  This suggests that there&#8217;s multiple fight pilots of course, something that isn&#8217;t really addressed in game (how could it be?) but in my experience kind of unusual in an arcade game of it&#8217;s sort.</p>
<p>The other interesting thing doesn&#8217;t relate at all to the subject at hand but I feel like mentioning it anyway.  Sinistar isn&#8217;t so derivative of Asteroids in that the enemies seem to exist outside of just being targets for blasting by the player: they autonomously go about their business of mining asteroids (the drones don&#8217;t even attack the player, only the enemy fighters do that) and building Sinistar regardless of the player&#8217;s presence.  If you blow up asteroids and don&#8217;t collect the minerals you can even give them a head start because they&#8217;ll scoop up the loose minerals and take it back to build more pieces on to Sinistar.  This simple ecology going on in the level around you is something quite unusual.</p>
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		<title>By: Stacey</title>
		<link>http://www.artfulgamer.com/2007/09/11/death-in-video-games/comment-page-1/#comment-1198</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 23:25:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artfulgamer.com/2007/09/11/death-in-video-games/#comment-1198</guid>
		<description>I think that by exploring death and the worlds that you can open up within a game would create more depth for your game.  For example, if your main character suddenly &quot;dies&quot;- why not create another world that he/she would go to, in other words the game wouldn&#039;t stop.  This idea of death and starting over reminds me of &quot;Choose your own adventure&quot;- a children&#039;s book that I used to read when I was younger- one wrong step and  &quot;game over.&quot;  When I got to the sections where I died I would not stop and ponder what had happened.  I would instead go back to the spot where I made my last decision and I would continue on from there, trying to &quot;live.&quot;  In that regard, there was no depth in the story- I was only reading to live, and I was so worried about making the wrong decision that I was constantly checking to make sure that I was going in the right direction.  I think that if we give players depth beyond death then they won&#039;t be so scared of making a mistake, and instead will be able to explore another part of the game, and by doing so will enrich their experience even more so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that by exploring death and the worlds that you can open up within a game would create more depth for your game.  For example, if your main character suddenly &#8220;dies&#8221;- why not create another world that he/she would go to, in other words the game wouldn&#8217;t stop.  This idea of death and starting over reminds me of &#8220;Choose your own adventure&#8221;- a children&#8217;s book that I used to read when I was younger- one wrong step and  &#8220;game over.&#8221;  When I got to the sections where I died I would not stop and ponder what had happened.  I would instead go back to the spot where I made my last decision and I would continue on from there, trying to &#8220;live.&#8221;  In that regard, there was no depth in the story- I was only reading to live, and I was so worried about making the wrong decision that I was constantly checking to make sure that I was going in the right direction.  I think that if we give players depth beyond death then they won&#8217;t be so scared of making a mistake, and instead will be able to explore another part of the game, and by doing so will enrich their experience even more so.</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://www.artfulgamer.com/2007/09/11/death-in-video-games/comment-page-1/#comment-1182</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Sep 2007 16:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artfulgamer.com/2007/09/11/death-in-video-games/#comment-1182</guid>
		<description>Yes! Reincarnation is one of the few thematic elements that I *really* wanted to talk about, but felt confined by the size of the article. I&#039;m going to read that Omikron article ASAP and add my comments there - I&#039;ve seen very positive reviews of it in the past, and it&#039;s been seen as a classic neglected by the gaming press. 
Thematically integrating reincarnation is difficult, and requires the kind of story that &#039;demands&#039; it. There are very few examples that I can think of that fit the description, although Shiny&#039;s &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah_(video_game)&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Messiah&lt;/a&gt;&quot; is an interesting look at bodily possession (but not quite death).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes! Reincarnation is one of the few thematic elements that I *really* wanted to talk about, but felt confined by the size of the article. I&#8217;m going to read that Omikron article ASAP and add my comments there &#8211; I&#8217;ve seen very positive reviews of it in the past, and it&#8217;s been seen as a classic neglected by the gaming press.<br />
Thematically integrating reincarnation is difficult, and requires the kind of story that &#8216;demands&#8217; it. There are very few examples that I can think of that fit the description, although Shiny&#8217;s &#8220;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah_(video_game)" rel="nofollow">Messiah</a>&#8221; is an interesting look at bodily possession (but not quite death).</p>
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		<title>By: Michal</title>
		<link>http://www.artfulgamer.com/2007/09/11/death-in-video-games/comment-page-1/#comment-1181</link>
		<dc:creator>Michal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Sep 2007 13:17:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artfulgamer.com/2007/09/11/death-in-video-games/#comment-1181</guid>
		<description>Thank you for this article Chris.  I found it an enjoyable read, and it is also something that I have been thinking about.  One particular aspect that you touch upon, though I do wish that you would have perhaps delved into more, is the the use of &quot;reincarnation.&quot;

This is in the vein of integrating death thematically as you say.  One game which does this well, is Omikron.  Therein, the player is literally treated by the game as &quot;the player&quot; whose soul inhabits the game world&#039;s characters.  When one character gets killed, another becomes available and then becomes the host for your &quot;soul.&quot;  It&#039;s probably one of the more creative uses of death I have seen in games.

Reincarnation is certainly something that I believe deserves a place in games, and I am curious to see how it is incorporated in the sequel to Omikron.  For more info, I did write a piece some time ago on Omikron here: &lt;a href=&quot;http://mentisworks.blogspot.com/2006/11/new-hope-for-adventure.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this article Chris.  I found it an enjoyable read, and it is also something that I have been thinking about.  One particular aspect that you touch upon, though I do wish that you would have perhaps delved into more, is the the use of &#8220;reincarnation.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is in the vein of integrating death thematically as you say.  One game which does this well, is Omikron.  Therein, the player is literally treated by the game as &#8220;the player&#8221; whose soul inhabits the game world&#8217;s characters.  When one character gets killed, another becomes available and then becomes the host for your &#8220;soul.&#8221;  It&#8217;s probably one of the more creative uses of death I have seen in games.</p>
<p>Reincarnation is certainly something that I believe deserves a place in games, and I am curious to see how it is incorporated in the sequel to Omikron.  For more info, I did write a piece some time ago on Omikron here: <a href="http://mentisworks.blogspot.com/2006/11/new-hope-for-adventure.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Man Bytes Blog: A Frenzy of Lexicological Optimism &#187; September &#8216;07 Round Table - Updated 9-12</title>
		<link>http://www.artfulgamer.com/2007/09/11/death-in-video-games/comment-page-1/#comment-1179</link>
		<dc:creator>Man Bytes Blog: A Frenzy of Lexicological Optimism &#187; September &#8216;07 Round Table - Updated 9-12</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 08:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artfulgamer.com/2007/09/11/death-in-video-games/#comment-1179</guid>
		<description>[...] the Artful Gamer has posted a comprehensive examination of Death in Video Games and has submitted it to this month&#8217;s table for retro-inclusion in June &#8217;06&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the Artful Gamer has posted a comprehensive examination of Death in Video Games and has submitted it to this month&#8217;s table for retro-inclusion in June &#8217;06&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Corvus</title>
		<link>http://www.artfulgamer.com/2007/09/11/death-in-video-games/comment-page-1/#comment-1177</link>
		<dc:creator>Corvus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 17:28:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.artfulgamer.com/2007/09/11/death-in-video-games/#comment-1177</guid>
		<description>Not to spam, but... There were some good posts on this topic as a part of a Round Table last year: http://blog.pjsattic.com/corvus/round-table/#0606</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to spam, but&#8230; There were some good posts on this topic as a part of a Round Table last year: <a href="http://blog.pjsattic.com/corvus/round-table/#0606" rel="nofollow">http://blog.pjsattic.com/corvus/round-table/#0606</a></p>
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